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"Magic" Not Really Magic?

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Prophet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prophet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2007 at 2:46pm
Once again my friend. You right now are displaying a belief. I do see that going into this further though would constitute in us both being utterly confused and bewildered so I'll just leave it at this.

If we forge our own futures, than can't we also forge our own reality? Or are they both the same exact thing? If truth is truth, then why is there psionics and magick that can be used to receive results yet to become truth as results? Why are we all not gray and act, look, feel, and straight around be the same? And why can some people decide not to live with the rules of this world and try to crack them down and actually succeed?


Do not judge me for past aggressions. I am a man of many faces, but this one is my last.
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cd27 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cd27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2007 at 4:23am
Originally posted by Prophet Prophet wrote:

Once again my friend. You right now are displaying a belief. I do see that going into this further though would constitute in us both being utterly confused and bewildered so I'll just leave it at this.


I don't see how, it seems to me that you are looking at something a bit different than i. I would like to continue the conversations if it is okay with you.

Originally posted by Prophet Prophet wrote:

If we forge our own futures, than can't we also forge our own reality?


No. Reality is REAL, belief is an oppinion of what is real. We can't create a reality, and i'm looking at this in a physical perspective as well as a philosophical perspective. just because i believe i can walk through walls doesn't mean i can, and my belief therefore does not constitute a change in reality. Reality is not individual, it is unified among the group...all of us have the same reality. Though we may look at it in a different way, the reality in itself is still the same.

Originally posted by Prophet Prophet wrote:

Or are they both the same exact thing? If truth is truth, then why is there psionics and magick that can be used to receive results yet to become truth as results? Why are we all not gray and act, look, feel, and straight around be the same? And why can some people decide not to live with the rules of this world and try to crack them down and actually succeed?


if that's the case,then also why do good things happen to bad people and bad things to good people? my answer to this: Events and reality are synonomous. Just because i'm a bad person doesn't mean that something good can't happen to me. As well as just because i believe that i can do something doesn't mean that it is true. At the moment i'm not trying to point out what i think is absolute truth, what i think is perfect and such, but i just want to understand what your view of truth is and ask you if it is absolute truth.

is your truth the same as my truth? does it work for me as it would work for you? if not then it is not truth, it is an oppinion, a belief in other words. can truth and belief also be the same? yes, they can, but only if both the belief and truth are absolute truths...which means that, for example, if i believe in something and it happens to be absolutely true (absolute truth), then it is truth and it is absolute truth, both the truth and the belief. But if my beliefe does not agree with absolute truth, then it is not truth, it is a belief, and to more correctly define it: it is a lie.

About psionics for a moment. (i won't deal with magic as you already know my standpoint on that). As i stated earlier, there is an absolute truth, it transcends time, space, reality, philosophy, and your own personal belief. (if i kill someone and you think it's bad but i think it's okay and not wrong, that would be truth for me...but the event is negative, not positive. Anything negative is not truth. Truth isn't everything and anything we want it to be. Because if it is negative then the fact that it's a good thing is WRONG. How can a negative thing be good? In order for something to be true it must NOT be contradictory...and that is contradictory) Anyways, back on the topic here, Truth is absolute, no matter what. It is absolute in everything and everyone, and just because someone has a different oppinion doesn't mean that that truth has been cast away, it means that this person is wrong, which is how there can be both good and bad people, bad and good events, as your questions portrayed, that there are two sides, thus multiple oppinions and they all seem to work...my question is: work for what? Just becaus a guy can kill someone and get away with it doesn't mean that they have truth and it 'worked', and this is for another discussion which i wish to continue with later in the conversation.

As for the psionics, if truth is absolute in everything, every time, and every place, then truth is a constant. I spoke of that earlier, where the laws of physics are constants. Now, you'll probably see in my theory that i say the laws of physics are neither permanent nor absolute, and i'll get back to that, but for now, they are constants. If i were to use psionics to break the laws of physics, then i am not 'breaking' them, simply reverting around them, finding a place where they do not fully apply. if this is the case, then the constant is still constant, and just because you can change it for yourself doesn't mean that the constant has changed, only your reliance on it. Just as in philosophy, if you change your view/oppinion of something and model your life about it, you are opperating in a self-manifested state of non-reliance, meaning that you are operating in a place where they do not fully apply to you, but they don't just not fully apply to you because they have failed, but they do this because YOU have changed their meaning/priority/importance to you as a personal, not to the whole as a group.

The constant is still there, but you have denied it for yourself. Now, i'm not saying you have done this, i'm just saying this in this event that if it may happen. In psionics you can bend, manipulate, and find ways around the laws of physics, but the laws are still the same, they still are governing our universe. Just because you have made it where able to bend around it and not accept its consequences does not mean that you are immune to it. Truth exists in YOU, moreso than it does in the world around you. you know what truth is, and you can choose to follow it or to deny it. Just because you deny it does not mean that you have passed by it completely and govern your own truth, you are still accountable for that truth.

Now, if you understand that, then we can continue the conversation, if you do not, then i can try to rewrite it in another way to make it more understandable. I would really like to understand your view of truth and its applications, but i want to get a standard ground here for the both of us for easy communication (in other words, agreement).

CD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prophet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2007 at 10:45am
Well, I do live under a different set of rules then everyone else. As you have said before, this is because of me not agreeing with the rules that humanity has set for itself.

In my opinion, we are given these rules at early childhood in an attmept to internalize these rules that we have made for ourselves. Then once these rules are implanted into our memories they become true to us. Does that make any sense at all?

According to the logic of this world, then we wouldn't be able to have and use magick in the astral, nor would we really be able to ascend to the astral realm. In that case, we wouldn't be able to do anything different in the astral realm then we would in this world.

Well, as I've said before, it is my general opinion that this world is centered around belief. There is no absolute truth, only things that we have internally accepted as fact in our lives.

I do rebuke the rules set by this world. I can't walk through walls because I internalized the rules of this world at an early age. I do know of someone who managed to do it quite a couple of times actually. So do believe that once I internalize the fact that I can alter my own reality, I can indeed transcend mass.


Do not judge me for past aggressions. I am a man of many faces, but this one is my last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cd27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2007 at 3:46am
You seem to be missing the point. Don't get me wrong, i understand what you're saying completely, i'm just trying to help you understand what i'm saying as well, so that we'll be on the same page. I'm not talking about our "world's" laws and oppinions and rules, no, i'm talking about the universe's. Just because mommy says something is wrong doesn't mean that it's wrong, per se. Now, if you did it, even though mommy said it was wrong, then you are being in the wrong, simply because you disobeyed her,thus disrespected her and undermined her authority, so when she does say something that is correct that you would consider not wrong, then you'll be in the wrong completely.

but my point is more over the fact that there are absolute truths here, there is an absolute fact. If you are not of this world then what are you doing here? why do you have a physical body? Why do you exist? If you do not belong here then why are you here? Apparently you DO belong here, because you were raised in this Earth, you were born here, you have lived here ever since. you were not born an Angel or higher ascended being, rather a human being, bound by the physical laws. As i have said before, just because you break a physical law, it does not mean that you have actually broken it, rather you have simply moved around it and bounced its consequences.

Consequences are not always immediate, and sometimes take several days, even years or lifetimes to have effect. If there is a set order to this universe, then there must be laws, and there is a set order, it's seen in the structure of atoms, in the basic laws of physics, in our language, in everything we are and do.

There are laws, that's my point. What we are seeing here isn't that you don't believe in laws at all, rather you don't believe in certain laws, you feel pressured to follow someone else's beleifs (be assured, pressured and forced are two very different words and meanings).

if my parents told me something was wrong based upon their belief in, let's say, the muslim religion, and you are Budhist (spl?), they would be wrong, wouldn't they? and you would be right? or would you be wrong, and they would be right?

Which one? are either of them right? What about Christianity? is it right? what about atheism, is it right? how about the laws of physics, are they right? WHICH ONE IS RIGHT!!!

That's the question we are seeing here. There must be laws, they have to exist, because our universe is clearly in a state of structure, that cannor be avoided. Structure means rules, rules mean laws, and laws together mean a STANDARD to abide.

If that's so, then how can we break these laws and standards? Why is it that the laws of physics cannot be broken, but our moral values can? Well, first, the laws of physics can be broken, as i showed earlier, that when they are broken, their consequences are simply diverted from; the same thing happens with moral values. There is a standard moral value...but our problems here is deciding which one it is. But, right now we won't get into which one it is, simply that there is one. If there is one, and we break it, even though we don't know it, are we doing wrong or right? Well, it depends on if you have ever been introduced to it or not. if you know it is wrong, but don't accept it, then it's still wrong.

This is all assuming that you're relying on that one and only standard or not. If you're relying on a standard that is incorrect and you break the laws it requires, then you have not done wrong, but if you are relying on the standards that ARE correct, then you have done wrong.

by saying that it is chaotic completely contradicts the fabric of our universe, our very existence. There must be a standard, so which one is it? By saying that there is no truth, then you are not only contradicting your very existence, you are running from it.

CD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prophet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2007 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by cd27 cd27 wrote:

Now, if you did it, even though mommy said it was wrong, then you are being in the wrong, simply because you disobeyed her,thus disrespected her and undermined her authority, so when she does say something that is correct that you would consider not wrong, then you'll be in the wrong completely.


This is a biased opinion on your part due to your religion and upbringing. Someone brought up thinking it's ok to disrespect your parents wouldn't think they're in the wrong. Sometimes it is necessary to disrespect them in order to get a important point across. Everyone needs to push a little bit harder sometimes.


Originally posted by cd27 cd27 wrote:

If you are not of this world then what are you doing here? why do you have a physical body? Why do you exist? If you do not belong here then why are you here?"


Honestly speaking, I could care less to be here or not. I despise the way this world is. I guess the gods have greater plans for me here if I have not found out what they are yet than I will soon enough.

This physical body sucks, but it is something I was born with. You don't necessarily have to be born with a physical body, but any more talk on this and you'll be dialing that 800 number to get me a custom made jacket.

I don't belong here, but I am here to gain some kind of experience. As you see, I live by a completely different set of rules than you do. Judging by my thoughts and explanations of those thoughts you should have guessed that.

If you wish to know the truth, in my past life I wasn't born and raised on Earth. And I was a hybrid of sorts. I commited suicide in my past life though. To find someone dear to me who had died. My travels through the ether brought me here.

I'm bound by physical laws because these laws have been determined truth by the people of this world. There are ways to actually break it. Not in everyone's instance, but in my own instance.

I've seen the whole time where you come from cd, because I have lived in this world and been taught physics and the sort. The only altercation we have here is whether or not I wish to believe it. Which I don't. There is a process of unlearning that I must do in order to erase its effect from my person. But seeing as I have not finished school, I must wait to unlearn it.

The way I see it, there is no right or wrong, only popular belief. The way you see it is similar to my way but you believe in the scientific absolute truths because they hold fruit in your life, you have such a passion for science and it's laws and ways, and also because your theory is heavily based on science.

Just like anything else though, science is a belief, a way of thinking. We all choose to apply it to our lives because it makes life easier for us. It solves the questions that we sat and thought about as we were going to bed at night in youth. It gives us a good foundation to live by.

I honestly am a hard learner. I like to try things the hard way first, then go to the easy way. Unless I'm feeling particularly lazy. So forgive me if I want to try things my way first before trying yours.

I say this a lot in my mind while they constantly try to help me when I insist on doing things my way. "Just let me fall." Let me keep thinking things the way I want to until I'm ready to learn it another way.

So I say to you, I understand what your saying because I've been there for the most part. Right now I just want to try things a different way. And if I fall, I'll get back up and try another way untill I find a way that suits me and makes me comfortable with myself. That's all that really matters to me.

I could go to school looking the biggest of messes, but as long as I feel good about myself and I'm confident with the way I am I'll tell those other people to go screw themselves. Half the time they only want to water me off anyway.

Well, I'm done talking for today. I'll see you sometime.

Latez


Do not judge me for past aggressions. I am a man of many faces, but this one is my last.
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