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"Magic" Not Really Magic?

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Prophet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prophet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2007 at 12:29pm
I see... and I can understand exactly where you come from. In my past years of Christianity I began to find it highly populist (for the most part) and against almost any other types of thinking. It sickened me to such an extent because I began to prove these ideas to be truth. You hear many different things during a pastor's sermons. To ears that are welcoming to his/her's speech will find it very informative and very uplifting. To those who do not share a christian faith or have a strong disliking/misunderstanding of the religion, you will find ignorance and malice. To those who seek to find the truth behind the barrier, it is they who will see the truth of the pastor's visions and will see their full intentions.

Many pastors have to go through training to become who they become. It is my belief that through this training and trials, they are tested to see how effective their sermons are to reach all three pairs of ears. This is what makes a sermon spectacular.

I myself share the ears of all three. What human doesn't. I can understand how you would see some of the pagan ways as wrong or demeaning because it was how you were raised to think and how you developed your thought process. I will not hold you accountable for you have done nothing wrong.

My main reason for being what I am today is because I'm sick of seeing things from one side of the spectrum. I want to see the whole spectrum and not just one side of it. This way I will have a balanced understanding of the world and it's people. This is my dream.

I do wish to discuss this with you further for I wish to see the side of Christianity that exists as it is supposed to. You may e-mail me at ad_16_2006@yahoo.com.

Hope to hear from you.


Do not judge me for past aggressions. I am a man of many faces, but this one is my last.
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cd27 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cd27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2007 at 8:05am
Prophet,

     I understand your views, and understand them well. I too was sickened and still am at times to see people who claim to be Christians and do not act like Christians, or are completely closed minded and therefore ignorantly arrogant. Thatís something I simply will not tolerate and cannot stand, is someone who is closed minded and even contradicting oneself with every spoken word. For example, my grandfather and I are always debating what some parts of the Bible are saying and what they mean and since he has this very old view of how respect goes (you know, Iím 60-something years old and anything I say is right), well, I donít take that crap, and I donít sit back and listen to it. He says itís disrespectful, I say itís speaking the truth and if he doesnít want to hear it, then heís just an arrogant closed minded fool.

     I do not tolerate closed minded people, and often simply stop the conversation before it can turn into an argument. I try to help them understand my point of view, which is rather open minded, but if they refuse to listen, then I simply stop the conversation, and my Grandfather and I have several unfinished conversations. I see that you are open minded and I would very much like to help you understand more of what Christianity is. Your statement you made earlier, let me quote:

Originally posted by ďProphetĒ ďProphetĒ wrote:

I can understand how you would see some of the pagan ways as wrong or demeaning because it was how you were raised to think and how you developed your thought process.


I have a fault with that statement, and this is why. I was not raised a Christian, I was raised in a very troubled childhood, (you can view my testimony here. I didnít just develop this mind set, or method of thinking. I experienced it, I saw it first hand, I know what Iím talking about not because I read about it, not because Iíve heard about it, but because Iíve seen it and have experienced it, what I say is from experience, unlike a lot of the other Christians who only state their dislike out of disagreement and ignorance.

     Okay, now that Iíve established my foundation and my position, I can openly talk to you about this. I have spent the last few years researching Christianity, researching WHY God wants to be with us, why this, and why that, and Iíve come up with a lot of great answers. I had written it into a large compact article explaining the basics of Christianity and wrote it specifically for people who are in your position who havenít really heard the whyís and why notís. There are several people out there who claim to be Christians but have absolutely NO IDEA what being a Christian is about. I somehow accidentally deleted the article itself (though I printed out several copies of it and still have them), but had remembered to write out an outline for the article. So, if you like, you can read the outline until I finish rewriting the full document.

You can view the outline here.

Something I would like to leave you with is that Christianity has a lot more science to it than you think; it has more science to it than Evolution itself. Many people are simply closed minded and refuse to shut their mouths long enough to hear it. Another thing is that you can listen to a pastor all day long, you can listen to your friends, and you can listen to me, and still never understand what Christianity is all about. You canít simply listen to someone elseís view of what a Bible verse or chapter is meaning and why without reading it for yourself. A lot of people are not reading their Bibleís because itís hard for them to understand the Ďthouí, Ďthyí, and other weird words, but thatís no excuse. There are several versions of the Bible that do not take away from the meaning of the scripture that donít use the thou, thy, and weird words like that that can help you a lot. I myself got a Bible specifically made to study the Bible (a Study BibleÖget thatÖlol).

If youíre ever going to hope to understand Christianity then you have to read it for yourself, because anyone can take a verse and take it out of context and make it mean anything they want, but that doesnít mean itís true. You need to be able to read the Bible and know what it is talking about and why itís talking about it. You have to actually think when you read the Bible, not just let someone else tell you what their opinions of what it means. By reading it for yourself you can experience a lot of things that you would never have experienced before and you will better understand what is being said. The opinion of a sinful human being should not overcome the opinion of your own. We are all sinful beings, and none of us can fully understand what the Bible is saying, even though we may think we do, so by passing down information about what the Bible says instead of reading it for yourself, youíre going to mess it up somewhere along the way.

Iíll be glad to help you understand something if youíre having any trouble, but be assured, I will answer straightly. I will not pull your strings, and I will flood you with research, as I flood myself to make sure I always have the right answer. I will listen intently and will answer your questions fully and if I donít understand what youíre saying I will ask. I hope that you will do the same for me.

CD27/Eric Wright
If I call you dumb...refer to my avatar ^
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donp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2007 at 8:43am
just an interjection here.
isn't trying to get a closed minded person to become an open minded person the same thing? either way, your trying to force someone to see your views or perspectives on a subject. in a way, every human being is closed minded because they have their own thoughts, ideas, views, and or perspectives about any given subject. while you may be open minded, thinking that someone elses ideas are wrong is just as closed minded as you say that person is. but....... if you were to say that you see their point of view and agree that they may be right, then you are truely open minded. being open minded means that you are able to accept other reasons other than the ones you formulate yourself.

just my 2 cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prophet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2007 at 12:21pm
And your very much right. In my years of living both lives (the dedicated Christianity and the dedicated ways of Chaos) I'm more or less leaned toward the chaotic side. I am a chaos mage. Because of this I only live this life under one set of rules (nothing is true, but everything is permitted). I believe this path to be the right one for me because I simply hate people constantly trying to force one ideal into your head versus another. Not saying you were doing anything of the sort. It's just in my past experiences with people like this (present ones even) I'd rather remain the way I am. The way I am now, I am able to learn and do many different things that other religions may see unfitting. But with Chaos Magick, I control my own reality. It gives me a sense of freedom. Of course I have enough self control not to do anything unsound, but even if I did, I would be religiously free to do so. While I am a man who needs to spread his wings, I can see how some people need balance in their lives to maintain.

Well, I'll keep it short for today. I hope to hear your response soon.


Do not judge me for past aggressions. I am a man of many faces, but this one is my last.
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cd27 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cd27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2007 at 8:42am
Donp,

I have had this same thing said before to me about open-mindedness, but i believe that you are looking at the wrong definition of being open minded. Here is the definition:

Originally posted by Dictionary.com Dictionary.com wrote:

having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments.


Being open minded has absolutely nothing to do with whether i believe someone is wrong or right, and it has nothing to do with me making/forcing (which is not what i said at all) someone to believe what i'm saying or what i believe. Being open minded means that you are able to listen intently to someone else's viewpoint without being prejudice about it. I've talked to several dozen people who are closed minded, and all of them have the same attribute: they are right and nothing you say can change that...not that they actualy LET you say what you wanted to say. Most people who are closed minded don't even let you finish your conversation, and refuse to listen to you completely.

If someone listened to what i had to say, didn't try to make it where i couldn't take (or perhaps the oldest trick in the book...asking alot of questions and not permitting and answer), and still didn't agree with me, i wouldn't have a problem with it, and i would listen intently on what they had to say. But if they are closed minded, then there isn't a point in the conversation...because there is not conversation, it's all them.

Prophet, I understand your view, and i too used to think EXACTLY the same way. But two plus two ALWAYS equals four. It doesn't matter how you get to it, it's going to equal four. you can't take two plus two and let it equal five, or six. That's TRUTH. There are alot of oppinions out there, but what we often have a problem understanding is WHICH ONE IS TRUE?

I would listen to you, because you are open minded and willing to listen as well as speak, and i respect that. Chaos means there is no order, and to an extent, it's okay, but even at your own admission,

Originally posted by Prophet Prophet wrote:

Of course I have enough self control not to do anything unsound, but even if I did, I would be religiously free to do so


you don't think in Chaos. As i said before, the slight change in the truth makes it UNTRUE (2+2 cannot equal 3,5,or 6, but truthfully always equals 4). There is a truth out there, there must be, and nothing is chaotic but our oppinions of what truth is. So the real question you are dealing with is, 'what is truth and why is it truth?'

I don't think any human will realy ever understand absolute truth, but to an extent, we all know some of it. As you said, you have limits. There is no inbetween, something is either wholly good or wholly bad, and we as humans have really tried hard to make a grey area, saying truth for you isn't neccissarily truth for me.

But it is, truth is always the same, for something to be true it must be unchanging, it must always remain the same, it must stand up against time and space, it must stand up against cultures.

Another thing is that Christianity is NOT a religion. it is everything BUT a religion. it's a relationship with our God, it's experience, it's growth. Catholics, at least the majority of them, not all, are NOT Christian, for alot of the things they do are not permitted by the Bible, which we hold as the truth and has stood as the truth for 2,000 years. Christianity has NEVER made a mistake. The people who claim to be Christians, imperfect humans, do make mistakes, but so far, Christianity has not, and it's been studied more than any science in the world and all throughout history. The Bible has been taken completely apart and looked at closely, and no fault has been found. Historians even use the Bible as a dating reference device for artifacts and treasures.

Many people have tried to prove it wrong, and have all failed, not one has come up triuphic. As for wicca and witchcraft, i'm not going to dis anything here, and i won't say that anyone is a bad person or an evil person for doing it, but i will share my experience if one will listen. I've seen with my own eyes why i believe that wicca and witchcraft (as well as other magical religions) are wrong and way off course, but that's for a different time and place.

CD
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